Fasting // A Panel Discussion

Coming soon!

Good morning, church. Good morning.

Hey, my name is Jonathan, Lead Pastor at Destiny Church. So thankful that you guys are here with us. Listen, we've got a special service today. We teased it a couple of weeks ago and then the snow and everything's been a little wild. But today we are continuing our conversation in our series on fasting. And one of the things we felt in our heart whenever we were taking some time to prepare for this particular series is I think it's so important for us to hear from other voices from other people, not just me and maybe not just other staff members, but other voices within our church family. And so today we have a group of six people and then also my wife who's helping me moderate this morning to be able to talk about their individual and their personal experiences when it comes down to fasting. And so this morning we're just going to have this conversation where we can look and explore this idea. And here's the heart and here's the reason that we want to do this. Sometimes when we look at certain practices, it's hard to see ourselves doing them. Like maybe you create reasons why you can't do it. Maybe you create not necessarily excuses, but things that make it obsolete as an option for you. Or you think like, oh, sure, he can do it or she can do it, but like, I'm different. And so we wanted to bring a group of people that's from a wide background in all sorts of different diversities in which you can hear different perspectives, different experiences. And yet you'll see these common threads and this commonality that the experience and what it means because our goal as a church is that you get to walk in with confidence to be able to step into this practice of fasting in whatever way it makes sense for your context. And we'll talk about a little bit more. So I'm going to sit down. Can you guys give this amazing group of people a round of applause?

 So we're going to start real quick with just a quick introduction for everyone so that they can have the opportunity to share some of you know some of these people you've seen before. Maybe not. So we're just going to go around the circle. Just give us a quick introduction and a little bit about your family dynamic. Very married, single kids, whatever that situation is. And then we'll get into the good stuff.

 My name is Greg McLaughlin. I started coming to Destiny. I think it was . Left for a while. We came back in . We've been here ever since. My wife Susan might be here somewhere. I don't know. I've got my son Liam. I see him over there. And then he's . I've got an eight year old daughter, Autumn.

 I'm a little about myself. Most of y'all that know me know me for weather tracking. So that's kind of a storm chaser.

 Anyways, we love this church and we're definitely as a family in a season of growth. And the fasting aspect is I think a season for us that we're entering as a family like now. So this is very pertinent to us as a family. So thank you guys.

 I'm Jamie Van. I'm Pastor Charlie's wife. We have four kids, , , , and  years old. So the circles under my eyes that you see are from them.

Yeah, I think that's it.

Good morning, guys. My name is Adrian Gaitin and I'm married to my beautiful wife, Lindsay Gaitin.

 We've been married for  years and I have four kids from nine to  year old.

 I did have to read that.

 So my name is Lindsay Gaitin. I'm his, like he says, beautiful wife.

 And we've been here like  years at Destiny, raise all our kids here and we'll die here. My name is John Fisher. My wife and I, we've been married  years and  of those we've been at Destiny.

 And we have four kids we homeschooled and raised and they attended here their entire lives until they all got married during COVID because they hate my wallet.

 And I've got one who moved to Alabama and one moved to Orlando, Florida, and the other two are still here in this area.

 And I'm Tabitha Kryless. I live alone. I don't have any kids. And I've been going to Destiny about two to three years depending on how you count it. So that's kind of my nutshell.

 Fan section.

 Yeah, she does. Do you have anything you want to say before you're going? I mean, no, not really. I'm just so excited that we're here together. We had the privilege to have dinner together last night and start the conversation that I hope will translate into today because it really I feel like after last night it made me feel so very blessed that you all called Destiny your church. But further more than it's more than just your attendance, but also your spiritual growth, what you are after and what you are here to share about. So it's just so exciting that we're doing this. So thank you guys for for being here. I'm excited to get started. Awesome. So one of the things so everyone here has had different experiences with fasting and they'll they'll share it with you. So everyone has fasted in some way or some form. Some people have been doing it for a really long time and some people it's been a much much shorter season that they've been participating. And so the opening question and we can go in whatever order you guys want. We don't have to go around the horn, but is I would just want to take a minute and share with everyone really what fasting means to you and what you've been experiencing either in this recent season or historically with fasting. What what does fasting mean to you and what have you been learning and growing in in this season.

 Jamie, why don't you go first. I went first last night so I guess I'll go now. So for me fasting I grew up in church. I grew up with a pastor for the for a dad. It was never an unknown term fasting, but it really became real to me over this last year.

 I started fasting on a regular basis. I know we're like not supposed to talk about our fasts, but hopefully I'm just trying to share and be vulnerable. I started fasting regularly. I do a weekly fast starting in August.

 My husband led me in it. He's a great person has like basically in my mind mastered the spiritual practice and I really just wanted to follow him into that practice and bring it into our marriage and allow it to grow and challenge me as well. So congruently, not necessarily specifically on purpose that I put these together. I stepped into a new position at work and it's a management role and there's some complexities there. It's not a corrupt organization, but it is a change averse organization. And so I'm kind of there rocking the boat a little bit and I find myself.

 I was finding myself constantly that that feeling of burnout or anxiety and stress and just frustration and the immediate grab for me like that temptation was to believe man the solution would be like I just need more control like if some if they would just let go and give me control of this ship if they would just let me do things my way. Then I would have that piece I would feel comfortable in this role. Everything would be going smoothly. I would be God's gift to man like it just would be great if I could control more things.

 And the Holy Spirit really put it on my heart to kind of seek where in the Bible we are instructed to control things because like Shirley thus saith the Lord Jamie shout rule the land. It doesn't actually say that. As a matter of fact, the only thing that I could find about control was control of self.

 And wouldn't you know it that self control is actually a fruit of the spirit, not a fruit of the flesh. And so I began to really contemplate this idea of self control is the only control that I can have in my home in my play in my work like in everything and it is going to be produced in me by the Holy Spirit. So on this other parallel path I had begun fasting and Pastor Jonathan has done a wonderful job giving words to the revelation that I have begun to feel an experience in my life. It did something to take control of my body for seasons and to sit with desire to sit with discomfort to sit with a need to be satisfied by something that wasn't entering my mouth. And what it did was it produced self control in my life. The more that I was able to deprive my flesh not out of like self loathing or punishment the same way that we train a child in the way that it should go so that when it's older it does not depart. I was training my inner toddler. That is my body. And as a result I'm watching the fruit of the spirit that is self control that has always felt just a little bit out of my grasp. I'm a driven person but I'm not a self disciplined person by my nature. Any time that I'm able to change the rules I will to accommodate my own comfort. I used to be a distance runner until I realized I don't like running for that long. And so I will take off on my two mile run halfway through decide this is a one mile run that I'm going to walk the second half of.

 And I'm okay with that. That doesn't bother me because I could change the rules. And I learned how much more am I able to finish the race when I can finish the standard and not change it. That will carry into me living in my life with a standard that I can't change. How much more was my flesh trained. And so for me it has just been this great product of self control in all the categories of my life. And I really look forward to that fast now. I look forward to putting the ugliest parts of me in their seat to really just let God work in my life. So good. So good.

 And I would say I was the opposite. So I got saved as an adult and I was enlisted in the Navy to fly jets and had a motorcycle accident and they bounced me.

 And so I had just gotten saved. And so I was looking for where to go to college. I went to ORU who was the only place that would teach me how to think but not what to think. I didn't want to go to it just a denominational location. And we had a class assignment and being that I had not been a Christian I was not pervy to all the Christian terminology or all the behaviors or history of the church or any of them. You gave yourself a title last night. What was your title last night? Practicing heathen. There we go. Yeah. That's what he was. I think I was promoted during the dinner to professional heathen. Professional heathen. Instead of practicing I said professional. Everyone left. And so we had to write a paper on fasting and this is my first exposure to it. And so it was just a one page paper. But after after writing it I thought you know I'd like to try this. And I had been kind of adopted by a family. A older couple that was here at ORU. And so they took me in for that weekend because I did a three day fast no food no water. And consequently I spent the weekend peeling apples because they were making apple pies, apple butter and apple cider. So I spent my entire fast touching and handling and prepping food. And how I would describe it is if you've ever been to like a concert or a bar where the music is so up loud that you can there's somebody right next to you and they're trying to talk to you but you just can't perceive what they're saying.

 You can tell they're talking to you but you can't understand. During the fast that was like that was the volume and it was turned down. And God had always been speaking to me. I just now could tune in and hear it. And one of the other things it did is it helped my perception spiritually you know to understand what was being spoken or what was going on around you. You've ever prayed hey Lord give me eyes to see you know people as you see them. That kind of perception.

 So good. You know Adrian you and Lindsay have had an experience with fasting but you the Lord initiated something with you. Do you want to share a little bit about that. Yeah. Yeah. So my journey with fasting began began around . I had just gotten back from a trip Miami and I had been so I was feeling really upset about myself. I had a lot of shame because I had fallen back into pornography and I was looking for a way out. So I was looking into sermons on YouTube and I fell into fasting and they were really strong talking about strongholds and you know deliverance. So I held tight onto that. I just every sermon I could listen to. And then I went on a three day fast. And you know I did get breakthrough. But you know unfortunately me and my wife weren't really aligned back then. I had a really broken way of seeing marriage back then. I was really you know the way I was brought up and stuff like that. I was I had a distorted way of marriage. I love God. I will say that  but there were still a lot of things I need to work out with my wife. So but God healed it. You know a year later we found restoration and healing and then like a few months or like six months into that. We and me and her were both led to start fasting together and then just crazy things started happening in our lives and just revelation after revelation and just hearing his voice more clearly like he talked about the sound being turned out and hearing him clearly. And sometimes I'm like no I don't want to hear you because he said like I asked for my prayer and then he always answers but it's not always my answer but it's always the right answer and at the right time. So I highly recommend fasting. It's been very beneficial for us. And it's just a really good intimate time with God and really seeking him seeking his face and he'll turn your world upside down. Yeah. Lindsay why don't you give your hat. I mean yeah it just happened organically. I feel like I didn't even know that he'd done that three day fast. And then later you know he said after we were working on our marriage and then I just kind of felt like I kind of want to fast. I don't know what it is. And then he was like hey I kind of want to fast. I want to fast. So let's do it together. And it was just random and we didn't know what we were doing. We tried to research as much as we could. We want to do it right. And then we felt I felt called to do Saturdays for some reason and and that that was a miracle in itself. Like I had I saw a lot of really cool special little intentional things. So I've never I don't hear God the way he hears God. I hear it more on the inside. But the only time that I have kind of heard a voice was during a fast. But he kind of is a very intentional very he he babies me. So nice to me. But he he puts little special little things that I can see that are tangible for me. And I've experienced that during fasting. And and I you said something on stage one time that it's terrible. And if anybody says that it's great then they're lying to you. I was like it's not true. I love fasting. I mean I look forward to it. I have the best time. I like to think of it as like daddy daughter day when we fast. You know I fast. And and I just spend time with him. And it's like he's always there wanting to hang out with me. But those are the days that I'm like OK. We're not doing anything else. We're just hanging out. And I've started to cut out other things that would try to get my attention and keep me from hanging out with with my dad. And so you know I've added little things. I'm like OK we're not doing that on fasting. We're not doing that on fasting. Like anything that's going to try to deter my daddy daughter day. We've cut it out. And so it's just really really special. It's very intimate.

 And I really I get sad every time I have to break it. Like I don't know. I'm crying. It's a whole mess. But I very much enjoy it. And it's very special to me and my dad. And that's just my experience. I guess. Adrian do you hate ending your fast too.

 Not really. I like to feast. Yeah we had done a three day fast beginning of this year.

 We were going to go feast and she's like I don't want to do it. And I was like we want to feast super hungry. And then I was like do you want to pray. And she's like all right. And she's like oh never mind. I'm going to start praying. It's just as good.

 So good. No you know you. You said it was funny. Mine's not funny. I just think it's interesting how you know you have the perspective of a couple doing something like this together. I think it's so beautiful because to do become one right. I think ultimately that is scripture.

 That the work that the Lord starts in each and every one of us and the things that he invites us because that's the thing that I think. It's very clear the more that we dive into what fasting is that it is an invitation to trust to push certain boundaries that the things that feel natural to all of us right to be sustained by the food that we eat. And so it is just it's so great to see the combination of different personalities in making an agreement to do something and honor God through a specific season and to see him. And so that from your experience in fasting.

 I feel like you have a special and really wonderful perspective and in your experience. Do you want to share a little bit about what fast things like for you. I can do that. But as far as like the meaning of fasting.

 I grew up in the church. I strayed for about  years and I came back in probably  and in coming back I was reading the word more. But even before then I've known about fasting. But when I would read more in the word and when it would come up I would come across Matthew   through  and kind of a paraphrase of it is the disciples couldn't cure an epileptic son.

 And so they asked Jesus if he could and Jesus came and healed him and then they asked Jesus why they weren't able to heal him. And they said and he said because of your unbelief and then he liked the mustard seed reference a whole different sermon.

 But then verse  says however this kind does not go out except by prayer and fasting. So this planted the seed pun intended in my mind of the level of importance of prayer and fasting. So I kind of had it always rolling around in the back of my mind.

 So that was the meaning. You want me to talk about my experience.

 Switching gears. You got it. Go for it. OK. I got the mic. Everyone's got a mic.

 My fast have been during wilderness seasons when it feels like I'm stuck and I need a breakthrough. I actually realized last night as I was not up until one o'clock trying to prepare this and write everything down that I never really had a set time frame on any of my fast. My fast came due to needing to become more deeper with God and trying to get clarity and get some understanding and some perspective.

 And I usually had like a big question. I felt like I needed answered. I felt like I was at a fork in the road and just tell me if I need to go left or if I need to go right. Just tell me. I don't know what I need to do here. And I'm getting off track a little bit here.

 I had done a few fasts of just like water juice only for a few days maybe three to seven days or something. But then I also did a longer fast of I don't know three four weeks or something to where I I just fasted work lunches and I would change that. With like kind of replace it with prayer or focusing on God.

 And that allowed me to fast for longer. So it seemed to be very beneficial to me. And so I guess one of the things I came up to the panel or wanted to say through the fasting experience was don't set yourself up to fail if you're going into a fast. If you know it's Thanksgiving next week and then Christmas after that don't sign up for a  day fast probably especially if you haven't fasted at all.

 But you can also just be realistic and have a goal in mind so that you can land on that. So it's OK. I love it. Last but not least.

 So for me fasting has always been a challenge.

 When I was young I experienced abuse in the home and neglect food insecurity. So I think for me growing up it's always been kind of an underlying thing there that's always been a hindrance for me to fast.

 And I you know every year we have the Lenten season. It's almost here and I always feel in my spirit like a draw to fast during that season because it's a season of repentance fasting and repurposing our hearts towards God as we celebrate the passion of Christ. And sometimes I dread it because I know like well I'm kind of a failure at this like I never really see through the Lenten season. And by the end of it sometimes I feel like I missed out. You know because the church Christians across the world practice that and at the end of it you celebrate with a feast which is what Jonathan's been talking to us about. And so I've prayed about this for a while.

 My wife and I've been talking about fasting and growing spiritually. I think both of us want to feel God more spiritually not so much you know with our bodily senses but more spiritually like awaken our spirits deeper with God. And so like I see for me that like you know maybe there's an answer prayer coming up when I got this email to be on this panel. You know I was looking at it. I was like fasting like I can't find anyone else like you know it's like I'm not exactly the best one to be up here but last night I left more encouraged than I've been a long time just hearing everyone else's stories.

 That what fasting really is to them that I mean what she's describing like she described it last night Lindsay did being kind of in the air and the clouds if you will. And that's like a spiritual experience like that's heaven. She's getting a foretaste of heaven of eternity and God is sitting there like asking for us to like partake like every day is a day of salvation. We can be in God's presence every day and to have the situation where like I don't want to stop fasting like wow that's a place to be like I would love to have that problem. I'm on the other end of it but I'm hopeful because I know that you know God has purpose in us and in our failures he's not sitting here keeping a checklist you know you know pointing a finger at us. He's like no get back up. Try again. And when we fall whether it's sin whether it's addiction if you have an addiction like we were all men up here. We all understand what lust is. I mean we've all experienced that there's not a man that doesn't know what that is in this room and there's many other addictions that we face in our society from phones which is something I struggle with to substance abuse to all kinds of things. And when we fall I think it's easy for us to get caught up in the shame of what we've done and God saying don't live in the shame like come back to me run back to me. And when you know Lindsay's talking about this daddy daughter time as a father of an eight year old when I come home from work and my daughter like your child comes and runs Daddy. I mean it warms your heart like nothing. There's not anything in this world that warms your heart like your children you know being excited to see you. Now my daughter is like really intense with energy and like you're tired at the end of the day so she might not get my full like you know like yeah like oh my gosh like quit jumping on me I'm not a jungle gym like let me sit down but.

 You know deep down in my heart like seeing that like I know where my heart is for my children like as as a father as imperfect as I am as a father but.

 To know that God is just sitting there every minute like he's in and all things right he's he's all around us we don't see him the veil of this world is over us we don't see the glory of God and it takes you know these tools that Christ gave us. I want to go too long here but like I've been reading in Ephesians and Paul opened up Ephesians by talking about how God purposed his mystery of his will in Christ. And that if we protect with Christ we get to experience the mysteries of his will and so fasting is one of those tools because Jesus fasted all the time. You read throughout the gospels you know Jesus would go and heal and teach and meet the needs of the people and they would flock to him and they'd follow him around everywhere he went and the disciples like where did he go he disappeared again he's off fasting getting that alone time with God and recharging. Because we're in a physical world and I'm saying this like I know but like I struggle with this but I feel like God is pushing our church into a season of immense spiritual growth.

 I feel like I've been sitting idle for way too long and I feel like there's a season on this country right now because our country isn't doing well we're sick like we're spiritually sick in this country and we're seeing the division it's getting sharper and honestly like when I get close to God or when I come into church like all of that goes away. Like all that noise all of that music right and like all of that is meant to distract us from communion with God and everything in this world is a distraction. Like I like video games I chase tornadoes like I do all kinds of stuff I hike any of those things are not bad but if I'm allowing those things to take all of my thoughts and my energy. What am I doing because all of it goes away when we die it's all it's all left here like we don't take any of it with us and all of us die there's not one person in this room that doesn't face the same fate. And when we die all that we have before God is the integrity of our soul how do we love him how do we love others and so fasting is a tool to connect to God you know you're talking about avatar I think James Cameron we did have an avatar conversation last night in case you're curious. I wasn't going to come up not my not not the thing I was my bad it was jamming it was the connection but I think it's crazy because what Greg brings. And brought last night to the table to in my mind I just made a mental note that fasting like one of the challenges that we're faced with is that it can be a little triggering you know there's things from our past trauma personal choices that we made a simple nature of our flesh. Many different things that become like come to the surface when you think I'm going to skip a couple of meals right and so it it is a challenge that we get to acknowledge. While also knowing this isn't just like skipping meals there's a spiritual element of being sustained in all of this and I think bringing our flesh may be bringing our circumstances to the very edge really and saying Lord. Are you meeting me here the reality is that we know he is meeting us here but in that moment Jamie there was something before avatar that you that you brought up and you said something about three people sitting at a table say that again okay so can I be vulnerable I can I be real. Yes we just said we talked about avatar maybe even more vulnerable than avatar so I did a three day fast and at the end of those three days I was at the end of some I had never experienced this before so Charlie and I have done youth ministry we have sat down with many families and many teenagers and I've had friends I've never had the full understanding of the gateway into eating disorders like I did. And I think that's what I did in that moment.

 Our flesh desires extremes because the uncomfortable middle is uncomfortable and at the end of those three days I found myself with a really strange and unfamiliar relationship and outlook on food.

 And I was like Charlie like I don't know what to do like I don't feel like I should eat this because I've been fasting and fasting has felt good and like also my pants fit more comfortably than they did three days ago and I really like that and it became this moment and I don't know how to get out of this state now but I'm beginning to feel like that panicky feel like not the positive like I don't want the state to end it was the I don't know I don't know what to do like I felt paralyzed and over time I mean Charlie just like handed me the burrito I was like just eat a burrito like it's gonna be fine like I'll help you button your pants like whatever.

 But I began to to kind of meditate on this and try to figure this out and I spent some time praying and the best way that I can describe it is when I choose to fast.

 There comes a clear separation in the parts of who I am. We're we're spirits all embodied right like I have my physical body and that body's desires and the things that keep it alive and comfortable and well, I have my spirit we're all a spirit and that's what we're doing here. I know my mind and my heart and it's like separating the parts of me and inviting everybody to sit at a table and have a conversation. Most of my life is spent up here and in here.

 My spirit and God's spirit go everywhere with me, but that's usually the quietest voice kind of like john said like it just turns all the other volume down. And so when I'm in a fasted state, everybody's sitting at the table, super rational, like my feelings aren't raging and we've seen inside out like everybody's like staff meeting for a second. My feelings are not taking over. My mind is not trying to reason through and strategize. It's my spirit. My spirit gets the opportunity to hold the microphone and make sure everybody is at a good check in point. And at the end of that fast, I think what was happening is my body and my heart and my mind were beginning to get loud again like it was time to leave the table and pastor Jonathan said something last night. There's this opportunity to leave that table that is ordained by God. How did you quote the Great Commission it was like go into all the world not stay like we're commanded to go the same way that we can't just only sit in our room and read our Bible. We can't. It's the extremes, right? It's like I love this place, but at some point to stay in this place becomes selfish, and you lose the purpose of that place, because we're supposed to carry that out into the world we're supposed to carry that spirit being out into our daily life and ending can be hard, whether it's for good reasons or less than ideal reasons. The extremes are really tempting in those moments, and we have to find ourselves that uncomfortable middle that Jesus always walked. I don't know if I answered your question. Sorry.

 Well, I know that we were talking last night, you know, one of the things that we mentioned was the fact that in the word it says that God jealously desires fellowship with the spirit that he's caused it well within you. And you know, one of the things I think Tabitha and even Greg mentioned about failure, you know, when I, the first time I ever fasted, it was an overwhelming success. And it was such a special moment that was foundational for my faith that no matter how I failed, or how far I got from God, it was always once I realized what where I was, I may have been totally lost. I always could turn around and get back with God. I could always go back, run back to it. And, you know, one of the things that that was a beautiful moment, a beautiful connection with God. And so what, what do we want to do like Jamie's talking about? What's the extreme? I want to do it again. You know, I want to, you know, it's almost like I want to get that copy paste, yeah, junky high, you know, in my spiritual walk. And what I found is because I wasn't necessarily being called by God to go into prayer. And I, Tabitha mentioned that sometimes you have questions you're trying to get answered. I didn't have a question. I wanted an experience. I wanted that connection.

 I wanted to touch that moment again. I failed. I tried to fast again, even a shorter time, just a day. And what I found is, because my motivations were wrong, because I was trying to do it on my power.

 I was so surprised. I thought it would be easy. Just, I just did three days. I should be able to do a day. Right? And the encouragement is that you can succeed again, but just don't expect that same experience the next time. Because as Jonathan was talking about the Great Commission going out, when you fast, you're given what you need for the moment that you're at. The next time you fast, you're not back there. That's not where you are anymore. Now you're facing a battle. Maybe that battle is something about health.

 Health for a family member. Health for yourself. Maybe it's salvation. Maybe it's, you don't know what battle that is, but that's the moment God's given you what you need for that moment. Not the old experience.

 One point that you guys made last night that really stood out to me is your intent when you're fasting. You know that you don't just not eat food, and then go about your normal life. You know, sitting there on your phone, or doing whatever we normally do. Really to truly pursue a fast, you're putting all of your energy towards God during that time. So for me, that was kind of eye opening. Because I have fasted a few times. I've never done multiple day fast, but I've never truly experienced something deeper out of it. I think that's because I wasn't truly purposing my heart. I've been in season right now of prayer, where every prayer, no matter how simple or how big, I try to purpose it with my heart. Not just to pray in vain. God doesn't want us to be just... It's like having a conversation with someone, right? You don't want to have a conversation where you're sitting there like, "I can do this, trust me." Like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." Like you're talking to a wall, you know? And that's how it is with God. He's looking for our hearts. He looks at what our heart is wanting.

 And you had challenged us months ago about God being the first thing you think of when you wake up, or the last thing you think of. And when you said that, I was like, "Gosh, how many times when I wake up, the first thing I think of is, "Ooh, I did not sleep right last night. My neck hurts." Or, "Oh no, we've got to get the kids out the door, and my daughter needs a bath this morning." Or you go to bed and you've got the worries of the world. Or for me, it's like, "Ooh, there's a big storm coming Friday."

 We're preoccupied with everything, and that noise. And I think I've gotten to this point in my life where I don't even realize I've become desensitized to how much noise there is. And so, for me, I really do want to quiet this out. And so, my wife's saying, "We've been in church our whole lives, and this is maybe the first time in a church where we're actually sitting down and talking in a practical sense what fasting is, what it involves, what it looks like, what the benefits are, what it's not." And so, for us, it's like, "Wow." I feel encouraged, challenged, but not challenged in a way like, "I can't do it." I feel like God's saying, "No, your season is coming." And I think there's a lot of people in this church that you have a season coming, too. I think, obviously, Jonathan's talking about it, so the Spirit is leading us in that direction. I do think with just the way the world is, there's a lot that's coming down on us that every day it feels overwhelming. And I know, going back to the Avatar thing, James Cameron ripped that off of Jesus, because Jesus talked about the vine and the branches.

 And everything in creation mimics that. Our lungs look like branches. Everything looks like what God has put and purposed in Christ.

 And we are to be connected to the vine, and prayer is part of that, studying Scripture, caring for people in need, being there for each other. But then fasting is a huge aspect of it, as well.

 Last night was, I think, a special time for my wife and I. We talked about it a lot on the way home. We're very encouraged, and now I can see why you guys have me up here. Even though I'm not super qualified, it's like, "Hey, maybe someone out there understands how I feel." It's not easy to do. Don't beat yourself up over it. Sorry, I kind of want to piggyback off that. I've been fasting regularly for a year now, twice a week. And there's been a lot of times where I don't get anything out of it because I'm fasting food, but then I'm being fed junk. So it's like, nothing's happening. So I think you guys would feel encouraged if you guys maybe just start with one meal, but be intentional. We've been all talking about with God, and I think that's actually a little bit more powerful than me fasting  hours and not actually being with the Father. Being on social media, working, it's like, "Bro, I'm right here. What are you doing?" So it's just, yeah. So I think maybe just start with the meal. Yeah, well, one comment that Ms. Susan said in our fasting group when we taught it, she said that you can starve the body and still feed your flesh. Like, wow. Like you can feed, because they call the noose feed on your phone, it's feed. We're like pigs at the slaughter, like, "Gimme, gimme, gimme." It fills you up. If you're fasting and you're not eating, you can get filled up with that junk, but it produces crap in your life. We can't say crap on the stage, sorry. We can't say crap on the stage, sorry. We'll beep that out. Sorry. But there's so much to consume everywhere we look. You can be fed all day long, but what are you eating? And so it's so important to feed yourself good things and things that are of God, and so that's why I would cut everything out. Anything that you could consume that could kind of fill that void of yours, that hunger that you're filling, because it's all trash. I mean, sometimes I'm like, you know, when we're working with my, we're homeschooling my son, and I'm like, "God, I need a cookie, please." Like, "I need patience. I need gentleness. I need some..." And he's like, "Oh, really? That's the cookies you got?" Like, "Cookie's gonna give you that?" No, it's not gonna give you that. It's gonna give you a little bite of a pretend version of it, an artificial. I'm the one that gives you the good stuff. Like, I'm the one that gives you the real fruitful selfcontrol patience, kindness, gentleness, all those things. You can't go and get your own selfcontrol. You can't go in the cupboard and provide yourself your own selfcontrol. It comes from me. So don't try to, you know, get the CRAP.

 Yeah, like Jamie said last night, she was talking about Charlie, and I appreciate when a wife or a husband speaks and edifies their spouse. And she was talking about the fact that he was one of the most incredibly disciplined people that she knows. It's disgusting. That was the edifying part.

 In the best way possible? Yeah, absolutely. But the true, as she's saying, you can be fasting and still not connect because you're not really disciplining. And the word, all through the word it talks about, like, when you have this word or this thought, you have to take it in submission. You have to force it to submit to the Word of God. It doesn't happen naturally. It doesn't happen on its own, you know?

 And fasting is a discipline. It's not the meal. It's about submitting through discipline your flesh so that your spirit, as Jamie said, has the mic. Well, and God doesn't want your suffering. He doesn't want our misery. He wants our dependence. And way too often it takes us becoming miserable to depend on Him.

 Something that I noticed after speaking with these guys last night was it seems like a lot of people think of fasting on a passfail grade. Like, you're either successful or you're failing. But I think it can be more of like a letter grade system. Is that healthy? I don't know. But that's my thought behind it. To where, like, maybe that was a B plus fast and that's okay. You can shoot for better next time. Maybe that was a D plus. D's get degrees. You know, whatever. It's fine. And I think, you know, if you really are in, if you're really wondering if it's failing, there's a quote that you can always go back to. And it's that you miss % of the shots you don't take. Wayne Gretzky, Michael Scott.

 The truth is that because of the person of Jesus, like ultimately it was His sacrifice and His suffering that covered everything. So I think if anything, when we fast, we come to this point. This place of like, there is nothing that I can do to pry God's hand open. This is really just a way to realign my appetite and realign where my heart is at and how I think of what I need. Right? Sometimes because we are in these vessels, we are so consumed by how we take care of ourselves and what we think we can't go without or how long that is. And there is a God who knows His creation far greater. We talked a little bit about, you know, how the world has woken up to all the science behind how beneficial a season of fasting is. There's so much information out there and how funny, but at the same time also beautiful that these are principles that we are invited into because we have accepted Jesus and we have accepted that He is sovereign over the lives that we live. And in order to continue to grow spiritually and be led by that part of us that has undeniably be brought to life, right? But in this invitation, we have the opportunity to see how the Lord quiets everything else and rules over everything else. Not so that you can advance in God's kingdom and be a better little soldier and maybe be the type of person that prides God's hand open. No, rather understanding I have everything that I need in the person of Jesus. In the hunger that I feel in my body, being able to assert that moment and say, but I hunger for you more. I hunger for what you say of me. What you say of me is what defines me. And so I think it's just so beautiful to have this group of people that is just a representative portion of who we are as a church experiencing a chosen challenge, right? To partake in Christ's suffering knowing fully that His victory is already ours because that is how crazy the love of God is. Can I add one thing? I know we're like basically past time. Something that you said, Greg, that I feel like the Holy Spirit just keeps putting on me is at the very beginning of your introduction both last night and tonight or this morning, you mentioned like the season of Lent. And this idea that, you know, when you don't partake with the body of Christ in this, like it's that you feel like you missed out or you got the cheap end version.

 And something Jonathan said a few weeks ago that I like loved and hated, like all the best things. God is the God of fasting, but He's also the God of feasting. And just because you're not fasting, you're not disqualified from the feast.

 We don't have to give up something for Lent, like Vivi said, to experience the redemptive power of Christ. You could go for the rest of your spiritual and physical walk on this earth without ever fasting for a day. And you have not disqualified yourself for anything. Fear of failure is a really poor motivator. And I didn't fast for a long time because I'm a master of the feasting. I'm already good at that one. I don't need to fast. But when we fear failure, we sometimes shortchange ourselves and we just need to desire success. Like I just want to try it and be okay with the letter grade that I guess called spiritual practice for a reason. Nobody starts off as a master. Nobody starts off with a success story except for John. He did. Practicing heathen. Perfect fast. Professional. Yeah, professional healing. But I want to encourage you, if you feel like you're missing out, don't let that negative feeling be what's propelling you into a decision to try.

 Instead of pushing yourself from that negative feeling, reach for Christ. Reach for the gift and the blessing that this is. Recognizing that it's a new kind of blessing. Being hungry on purpose is unnatural. I need food both to survive in my body, but also to be kind. I'm not nice if I'm hungry. Like it's just a thing. My kids will be like, "Mom's fasting. It's real." And God is working in my life.

 But reach for the try. Reach for something small and recognize even if you don't make it, feast afterwards because God will meet you where you are. You do not have to earn that feasting. They're not mutually exclusive. Is that the smart word?

 You can have one without the other, but like everything, we're called to continue to work out these things. To continue to practice. And that's where we never fully arrive. But in the body of Christ, when we are all working on ourselves and we are all working together, it's like taking that braid and avatar and plugging it in. And we're all better for it.

 So good. That's so good. Well, hey, can we give these guys a round of applause? So good. I appreciate them being vulnerable and sharing. So for everyone who's here, I've got a couple of, I don't want to call them challenges, opportunities, things that I want you to prayerfully consider. First and foremost, if you're like, "Man, I want to learn a little bit more. I want to maybe potentially walk some of this practice out in community." I highly encourage you to sign up and to participate in the weekly fasting formation class that starts this Wednesday. Six o'clock, we'll eat food together. We'll watch some videos. We'll have great discussions. It's a fourweek class, so it's every Wednesday for the month of February. It's going to be, it's a really, really powerful time. And with a lot of opportunity to learn and grow, but also to share in community. And that's huge. And so if you're sitting there, pray about it. And I think it'd be a really powerful time for you to be able to come and do it. And then whether that's you or not, there's another invitation I want you to prayerfully consider because some of you, I know just based on your personality, I had a conversation with someone like, "You just need me to tell you to do it and you're going to do it." Like, I know there's a couple of you that's like, "As soon as you say go, I'm going to go." But until you say go, I'm not going. So just tell me when to go. And that's okay if that's your personality. That's not everyone. But here's the invitation, whether that is you or not.

 The thing that I'm encouraging everyone who's participating specifically in the formation class is to basically contemplate a fast from Tuesday night to Wednesday night. Because we are having a meal together and we'll get to break that fast together Wednesday night before we go and learn. So we'll fast at time and then we'll feast. And maybe it's a full  hour fast. Maybe it's just skipping lunch that day or skipping just breakfast that day. I want you to allow the Holy Spirit to lead you in what that looks like. But whether you're able to participate in the class or not, know that many in our church family are going to be participating in that. And it's a time that you can join with community and be like, "Hey, I'm not the only person walking through this. I'm actually walking through this in community." And whether you get to be in that group or not. And then the last thing, if you're here and there's something that would limit you from maybe able to participate from a fast of food, right? Maybe you have a medication, maybe you have a medical issue, or maybe you just currently are still walking through like what we talked about. An unhealthy relationship with food in which you need to find some healing. Then what I encourage you in is don't allow food to be the thing you fast yet, right? Set that aside and wait. And instead, invite the Holy Spirit to say, "What can I fast?" And though it may be technically what we call abstinence, there's still plenty of things that you can set down that maybe are things that limit or create noise in your life. And you can remove those for a season to be able to hear better. So maybe that's social media, maybe that's TV, maybe it's the radio in your car. I don't know what it is. But you can invite the Holy Spirit to say, "If you find yourself like, "Hey, I don't know if I'm ready for food yet because of some specific things." Then that's okay. Like the Holy Spirit will lead you. And the result will be the same because the goal is not just to eat. The goal is to find deeper connection in the presence of God. And anything we can do, there's so many things we can do to experience that. So do this with me. Stand at your feet. I'm going to pray for us as we dismiss.

 And then you have to run to get your kids. No, I'm just kidding. They're fine. We gave them snacks. Father, we just thank you so much for today.

 Lord, I thank you for what we got to hear and we had to experience and we got to think about today.

 Lord, I just pray that for each and every person here, whether they already have a rich tradition and practice of fasting or maybe they've never been exposed to it, Lord, I pray that your spirit would just lead us and invite us to that next step.

 And the way that only your spirit can do, the gentle and loving embrace of invitation in which we can lay something down and pick up something better that you have for us.

 So, Father, wherever we find ourselves, whether that's signing up to be part of the formation class, whether that's joining in the church fast during the month of February on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, whether that's just learning more about it or laying something down that's not food related and the desire to hear your voice more clearly and to be in your presence and be transformed by you.

 Lord, I pray that not only can we experience that moment, but we can leave that moment and go into the calling that you have for us to show the love of Jesus everywhere we go.

 So, Father, we thank you for that. We thank you for this day. Lord, bless everyone who's in this room. It's in your holy name we pray. Amen and amen. Well, listen, yeah, we can give God some praise this morning. Well, church, we love you very much. You guys are dismissed. We will see you next Sunday. Have a great rest of your day.